Host Christopher Wells welcomes Pino Di Ioia, CEO and co-owner of BeaverTails, for an engaging discussion about hospitality, leadership, and the iconic brand’s journey to over 160 locations across six countries. Pino shares his personal story, the philosophy behind BeaverTails’ success, and how culture and adaptability drive business growth. From the importance of authenticity in leadership to the lessons learned in building a beloved brand, this episode delivers actionable insights for anyone passionate about food service and innovation.

Christopher Wells 0:01

Hi, everyone, Christopher wells, your host here for another episode of table 21. With my guest today, you know, the lawyer. Now, I everybody says I like to say that in the restaurant industry in the foodservice industry we sell happiness, right? We make people happy. We provide them with, you know, food, drinks, atmosphere and experience. But, you know, people could do that at home and survive, right? They don't need to come and do that with us. Now, my guest today, though, takes that happiness to a whole different level, you know, is the the owner, CEO, I don't even know exactly what his title is, he'll tell us that but of beavertails. I could guess that for those of you watching from Montreal, beavertails, over 140 locations in six countries, a powerhouse of a brand, because everybody loves beaver kits. And I'm so excited because I get to see him in a conference a few months ago. And I was like, not only do I like the brand, but I like the man behind the brand. And then he talks about his culture. And I have to have him on table. 21. So without any further ado,

Pino 1:03

thank you, Christopher. Let's see. Well, thank

Christopher Wells 1:06

you for coming on the show an honor and a privilege to have you as I said, when I get to see you in that private conference, we did through C two and emerging entrepreneurs here in Montreal. I was completely charmed by by you. And I said we everybody loves the brand. I haven't met anybody that I hate the retail. Everybody loves your brand. Everybody loves, you know, the company you've built. But then I discovered why too sometimes. Right? There's good great people behind it. And I from what I understood, it's just not you, but it's the whole the whole team. Right?

Pino 1:38

Absolutely. And I love your energy too. So I think we're just we're certainly that way. It's good.

Christopher Wells 1:44

This promises to be fun, our that will stand together. I was telling you a bit about my format before. I like to start this I mean, it's great to know about the businesses it's great to know about the culture, the leadership, sometimes it's fun to know about the people behind it. So I like to start my my table 21 episodes with this with this thing I like to call this or that right. Give you two things and you tell me for Pino what? What you know, there's there's one to pick

Pino 2:13

out like the eye doctor. I'm gonna cover one eye and we're gonna Okay,

Christopher Wells 2:17

I'm working bed right? Um, so this or that. Are you more phone call or text? Ooh, phone call. Phone calling. Are you more jogging or gym?

Pino 2:29

jogging?

Christopher Wells 2:30

jogging? You're a better man than I am. I try that but I'm not built for running.

Pino 2:37

I didn't say do it often, but okay. Yeah,

Christopher Wells 2:39

if you have to pick right? Yeah, lesser of two evils, right. Are you more beets are brussel sprouts.

Pino 2:46

Oh, well. Brussel sprouts are both a good

Christopher Wells 2:50

mother good. There's some fun stuff to do with these are you more chips are ice cream? Ice cream? Ice cream?

Pino 2:58

Oh, you're challenging the ice cream? 100%

Christopher Wells 3:01

Yeah, that's hard. That's a That's a tough one I am. Yeah, I mean that's the goal right is not to make it too easy for Netflix or YouTube and Netflix and Netflix. You ever get lost in those YouTube rabbit holes?

Pino 3:15

No Actually that's why I don't like YouTube like to too much commitment Netflix you want to share with you but

Christopher Wells 3:23

I can get some deep rabbit holes in any subject on on YouTube like people joke that you know you conspiracy theories, but not even that, like I'll think of, or they'll suggest a video about a certain artist that I like and I and there's another live version of this. That's great. And then there's and then I'm like watching five videos at the same time.

Pino 3:40

Then you asleep of the algorithm. It's like no, I can't do that. I cannot do that.

Christopher Wells 3:45

Definitely I'm a slave of the algorithms for sure. Are you more beach or mountain

Pino 3:49

beach beach? Yeah,

Christopher Wells 3:52

I'll share obviously there's the classic joke of on the Zooms right we may be wearing something nice up top but we're it this is my first podcast in my shorts and my flip flops are you watching this I mean there's people all over North America watching this but that were mean Pino are both actually based in Montreal, and today is probably one of the first really nice days we've had and I've just been a few one a few weeks ago but it's been pretty old. Today looks good. Promise the kids would probably do a barbecue outside so

Pino 4:23

yeah.

Christopher Wells 4:25

Are you more tea or coffee?

Pino 4:26

Oh coffee, coffee coffee I have nothing against tea but coffee 1,000,000%

Christopher Wells 4:31

need that fuel right yeah, yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much for for playing my little game.

Pino 4:37

They were easy on me

Christopher Wells 4:39

that's the goal right I'm I'm all about softball This ain't a political show. To know I'm a bit of your background the story like how do you get to Beaverdale I know you were a franchisee you know you you were I think members of your family. You own your own business. Tell us just Just what brings me no to food service the rest Profit and what takes you in the role and where you're at right now?

Pino 5:03

You know, and, Christopher, we've talked a bit about this just you and I even, it's crazy how the world is just, you know, we run at a million miles an hour, and you don't take time to really think about these things. But I was reading and I think I told you this. I was reading a book from Danny Meyer's from Shake Shack, he just has a little bit, I think. Yeah, exactly. Semi Automatic, autobiographical. It's a bit of a long read, I don't always have time to read. But his first few pages he talks about, we're in the hospitality industry. And in the hospitality industry, you have some guys that are the engineers, and they're really, you know, operations. And you have some guys that are marketing and fantastic. God bless them all we need, we need everybody. But then you have guys, and I think you're one of those guys, I think I'm one of those guys and hospitality is in the blood. And it's really wheat. In French, we see overfed przede, we want to we want to share that pleasure. And when I was 11 years old, I started my first it was like a lemonade stand, but a golf course next to my house. And I ran that for four or five years. And I got to know those golfers like first name basis, and it was like my own little, I wish I could put it that out call it would have been even more fun. For me that was I knew this was an industry, hospitality. But more broadly speaking, that spoke to me that there'll be details. But looking back, I know now that that's where the bug got me. And but back then it was just a summer thing, you know. But then fast forward. Then you get into the mistakes of our industry, which are so common, right? So I got into the industry by mistake, like so many other people. And essentially, I applied for the dream job of my life. I wanted to sell clothing from a company called esprit. There's kind of like a club Monaco or gap almost of the drink colorful clothing.

Christopher Wells 7:01

And yeah, that

Pino 7:03

was something semi colorful today. I did not get the job. They kind of laughed me off and said no, you're not made for this industry. Whatever. Maybe they were right. I assume they were that the back,

Christopher Wells 7:15

though. Can I know? You're wearing a bit of colors today? Isn't that the the? The base of what goes under the beavertails?

Pino 7:26

Yeah, the plan is is an official uniform. So I had to wear a heavier lens. But like you said, with the flip flops, it's like, plus 25 degrees Celsius today, I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit. But this was not the day to where by heavy lumberjack shirt. So I went a bit a bit on brand but not 100%.

Christopher Wells 7:45

Exactly. Sorry for taking you away. So

Pino 7:47

that's okay. Thanks for catching that. At least the marketing guy that after is gonna say okay, he is okay. That's right. Yeah, we could forgive him. Um, so, fast forward years later, I didn't get this job that I wanted. And the fallback job is always fast food when you're 17 years old. And so I started working for this company called the retailer that I'd never heard about. It was the first store outside of Ottawa. I've never tried one. And they trained me for two months. They wouldn't let me try one. Because they wanted to give me the theory first. And then I tried it on opening day and night. I'm a dog guy I love cos I love danishes I love that stuff. I didn't realize wow, this is like really my feet and when they don't fire you, you stick around then, you know, manager and multi manager and franchisee multi unit franchisee CEO for the founder and then CEO for sells he sold my twin brother, my wife, who was my girlfriend back then. So this is I mean this is 1987 that I started that just needed me. But that was that was it. I never looked back. I just kept going one after another. And you know what? True to hospitality. Like I didn't get to this part of the book but I'm sure Danny Meyer talks about Shake Shack and that was he was supposed to animate one park that we built one place for one park. Already one

Christopher Wells 9:26

square like I think he's around Union Square in New York. And the building that he wanted to use but um, I'll tell you a quick story. One story about Danny I calling him Danny like I know I should say Mr. Meyer because I totally respect him and probably one of the most you know if there was a Mount Rushmore of restaurants. Me Danny Meyer would be on it. So I did reach out to try to bring him on table 21 And he's super busy. Right they have a stack right now. So an investment fund that is yet investment fund this back the all the businesses reopening and they were at courteous and professional as they are in their restaurants. They were in saying, Listen, you know, Danny's a little busy can't come. But would you like to Dr. Richard Corrine has been Danny's partner for 25 years. Wow. 15 minutes on the phone with Richard last week. I'm so gracious. So nice. He said, Chris, I'm a little busy. But can I come after Labor Day on the podcast, I would love to do the podcast, like Mr. Green, whenever you decide to come on will work for me and Melody salutely are from the interactions I've had with with Mr. Meyers, assistant to Richard Richards assistants, everybody, they are as courteous and as and you know, empathetic and nice as they are in the videos he sees in the book and Gramercy Tavern last year and had an outer body experience, because I was so excited to be there. But yeah, that's pretty and kind of the same thing I've had with you. Right, I saw you in a context where you were doing kind of a conference in front of 100 people or I don't know many where, but, and then I got to talk to you one on one. And now we're here today. And that's the same people that I see across

Pino 11:02

across the board, right? Yeah, a lot a lot easier for me. But on this side, I'm not surprised by anything you said Christopher. Because that's it. They did. They are hospitality 100%. And so I think that makes it easier when you're doing full service. And it's a little bit trickier when you're doing a McDonald's type environment. But with Shake Shack, they still you know, Gramercy Tavern is one thing, you are hosting someone into your house, that Mandy, carry it through on Shake Shack. And that has everything to do with how you treat your staff. And whether you're paying competitive wages, and how you lay out your restaurants and how you lay out your menus. And all of those things that come from the heart. They're more powerful when they come from the

Christopher Wells 11:46

heart. Of course, like, people know when you mean something, right? Yeah, people detect BS a mile away, when it comes from a real place. You can't you can't fake that, right? People know when something is off. And that's amazing, because what you just mentioned now, talks about culture, right? Culture is a word that we like to throw around a lot, but but I just said, like, how you treat your people competitive wages. That's something that really transpired when I saw your talk the first time. And to me, you kind of describe culture. But is that when you see us culture and how do you build yours would be retailed? And how do you try to apply that? You know

Pino 12:23

what here? very timely, this was not scripted or strange, everyone? Okay. Very few. Lots of books set aside very few behind me. This is a company out of Quebec City called Mergo.

Christopher Wells 12:37

Yep, they do apps. Now.

Pino 12:39

They do apps very much. Yeah. These guys are so proud of their culture, they created a culture book. Yeah. And literally, it's pictures submitted from their staff, and all the things that are important to them. And you're so proud about it, that they say on their website work. It's open, open source, if you want it right away to us, and we'll get it to you. I'll give it to you, which I thought was a joke that I did. And they were courteous. And it could be could be in hospitality. They were courteous and professional. And so sharing by nature. I got the book and that inspired me we're doing the culture book. So I was on a panel maybe two weeks ago with I think it was James who who Leah forgot feel bad now, but very, very sweet guy from Starbucks. He was there, HR Canada. Okay. And he said, James Jones, Julio, Julio Jones, sorry, that's it. And he said, Starbucks is massive, and we serve, you know, 10, kabillion coffees a day or whatever it is, says, but really the way we manage that and we digest that is we serve one story at a time. And I think the culture is very much you know, you mentioned before authenticity and it's such a buzzword in marketing, Christopher, we're all sick and tired of hearing it. But it's true people can smell bullshit from a mile away. And if you're not authentic and you don't live it, don't don't do it. It's it's not gonna fly anyways. So

Christopher Wells 14:19

I am totally agree, I want that book. And that's something that's super important for me to write even the way we've built piecemeal so far, and we're very small still, but the people the feedback we get from our users is well first of all, we built it with hospitality with hospitality, like you said, other people like Mira go does Tech with hospitality with that frame of mind. But seeing how as our team grows and people around us like they feel that that's a goal of ours like right that's something somewhere we put attention where for a lot of people it's kind of oh, that's unimportant, but me coming from hospitality I had to have I told my partner the second time we met I said we will do high tech but high touch like bring I want to bring that level of service that gives our users our restaurant people. So they give service right? So I want to talk a little bit. Um, what are some of the it's there's a lot to unpack in what you just said in that two minutes there. But it I, I'm a big fan of Starbucks, I love the coffee, love the brand, love everything and, and I was going to the mall recently to pick up some stuff. And I was gonna say the other brand I shouldn't say do remember is another famous Canadian coffee brand. Starbucks, and there's 20 People at Starbucks, and there's zero people any other brand. And I'm like, why is that? I mean, coffee is coffee in the end, right? Why do people associate with that brand so much? And yet the service is there? Like I you can I've been to Starbucks in Taiwan, in Chicago, in Hong Kong. I mean, I've been into Starbucks in, I don't want many countries. And that level of service is always there. Because that culture follows and the brand follow.

Pino 16:01

You know, what took us for a nap maybe touches, not so much a culture, but it is a culture. It's a culture of precision. And our industry is one where we're not making cars on an assembly line where you can measure every piece and program the computer and away you go. It we're assembling every story one at a time. But a designer who worked with Starbucks once told me that and you'll notice right away, when you order your coffee, your first reaction is of course you pay and then okay, where do I go pick up the coffee, and they have those teardrop lights that I think they don't even use anymore, because I guess they've gotten us all used to, you know, you know where to go. But you could be across the world in a culture where you don't speak the language. And once you pay to Starbucks, your eye tells you that's the pickup to go and the sugar is not far from there. And the lids are not far from there. Because they they've programmed the experience so that you can do the enjoying and that's that culture of precision is so prevalent and I don't you know, we don't want to talk about that for Danny Meyer's I'm winning but you literally Shake Shack and it's thought through

Christopher Wells 17:13

all it's something that I feel is probably obviously you're mentioning too but with your brand as well right? Um, you guys don't reinvent the wheel right? You do Google product. It's a simple menu. It's efficient, but the branding is solid. And now that you're saying this you know what I'm picturing. I'm picturing a beaver tail and and that kind of topping is always really well placed on top right. It's not like that fried dough that I used to have and greasy and then there's like they are they throw whatever, you know, you're asked on topic. Your stuff is neat and clean. And there is an attention to detail right devils in the detail.

Pino 17:49

Yeah. And there's an aesthetic, we have formulas on how we stack our toppings. And it's done. It's done for ease for the operator so that you could do that one shot then for Instagram too. But you're right, this thought that goes into that.

Christopher Wells 18:05

Um, and I love that line the devils in the details and that's if you don't when it's well done, you don't notice it. But it level it raises the experience. And yes, for everybody right

Pino 18:20

lists.

Christopher Wells 18:22

This is really interesting stuff. Um, you you have how many like over 140 stores now? Right?

Pino 18:27

100 deaths 60. Wow, two and about? We're very fortunate COVID COVID has actually been quite kind to us. We have about eight or 10 under construction now. Trucks stores, many stage construction architects stage different different levels. But great, great year for us.

Christopher Wells 18:48

That's amazing. I have to tell you. I've been careful lost a lot of weight in the last four or five months. Um, but if there's one thing with everything that's happened in the last year that I would love to do is to shove more beavertails in my face right now because, you know, they make me happy and you guys are what six countries? Is it more than that? Oh,

Pino 19:05

well, let's count them. So Japan Mexico, France. Canada, US five. No, you're right. Yeah, you say

Christopher Wells 19:15

the web told me that I actually really interesting thing wasn't going to go there. But we're talking culture we're talking all that. Obviously Canada, US very similar. You go to Mexico, you know, there's a different vibe, but still, but going to Japan is a very different culture. Right? I mean, I think the part of Dubai and you can correct me but for me that feels very Americanized, in the difference but how when you go into a market like Japan where the culture is very different, what are some of the stuff that hit you are were they things that you had to tweak? Or how was it to go into that market?

Pino 19:52

It's funny. The short answer would be no, no, we along with it. We don't necessarily encouraged or discouraged? Our guys in France kept it very Canadian. And France, you know, it's like the world epicenter of pastry. They didn't change it. Japan added a few little touches here and there. Mexico didn't really change it up, didn't change it. But the reality is that it's a funny story. I'll tell you two weird cultural stories. When you get a beaver tell you most people leave it like this. So you and that's universal, that doesn't matter where you are, Japan is not a culture where you eat with your hands. And yet, not only be it take it the same way. Everybody gently folds it a bit like a taco topping face in the middle. This is universal. We can't explain it. We just kind of chuckle every time we see it, but you open a new store across the world. So when intuitive international way to you to be retail.

Christopher Wells 20:55

That's amazing.

Pino 20:56

The second store which is you know, less weird, but that's still powerful. We had a visit from our franchisee in Victoria, at Mount Washington, a ski hill or from Victoria. And he was in Montreal visiting family. He came with his mother. And she was late 60s 70s. And she said oh, you know, I go and help him in the store sometimes. And I have to tell you, I love the triple trip. The triple trip is a chocolate peanut butter sauce and Reese's Pieces. Not quite the healthiest of the DVTs. Yes, absolutely. Not necessarily what you'd expect your grandmother necessarily but by all means, why not? And I remember saying to you know, Vancouver ski hills, there's hiking in the summer. Everybody says oh, your product, you know, it's not as well received in Vancouver because they're healthier out on the West Coast. Christopher are number one flavor is chocolate hazelnut in every market word. And you can think that you're a bit healthier that you like fruits more you like maple more. The Maple does not sell more in Quebec, that it does in the rest of Canada. It's universal. So now we've released custom flavors like maple bacon, there was a matchup tested did some that are more regional that I would argue that those two is not we live in a small village this world events.

Christopher Wells 22:27

Yeah. Well, I mean, it shows like if everybody's eating it the same way if the same flavors, you know, top sellers the same everywhere. I mean, it it gives you that, you know, humans are humans and we're often attracted to very similar things and yeah, yeah, we're talking about culture before and all that it's I tell people I know I used to tell people that you know, some some people sometimes are frowning at people from other cultures, right? I mean, sometimes it's education or you raise and all that but I said everybody wants the same thing right? I said every do late to dude in Montreal in Dallas or in Islamabad. He wants to go dance at his daughter's wedding. He wants to be happy like as humans like you know, we had our needs and our desires are the same right? It doesn't matter maybe from different places different cultures but but that what you're saying now just proves that and that's why as the world becomes more global, with good and bad and all that yes, this shows that that that proximity and I don't know I feel like you know you're talking to people all over the world through your business. I'm talking to people in Europe I'm talking to people in Hong Kong and in the US and we were all the same in the ad right? I mean, different views, different values and all that but But humans have the same basic desire so let's say

Pino 23:39

Starbucks coffee is popular even in Italy so yeah.

Christopher Wells 23:44

A good friend from Italy frowned upon

Pino 23:47

those are my people I won't blame the

Christopher Wells 23:50

for sure can't wait a bit we were planning to go to Italy before all this so coming out of this you you've done I've done a lot of openings not as much as you I'm sure but you've opened a lot of stores every store I've opened has had a funny slash weird Yes. Oh yeah. accident happen. Any any fun story you can share with us from from something happening in an opening or

Pino 24:13

me every year on the Rideau Canal in Ottawa. We have to put people think that our trailers sit on the ice. But these are 40 foot trailers. It's too heavy to go on the ice. So we have to put pylons of cinder blocks. Yeah. Before it freezes. But you sit on. Exactly. We'll sit on the ice. We sit on those things which sit on the ground, but you can't do it too early. Because then the waves are higher, they drain the canal for the Rideau Canal for the skating. Okay, and we will put out for anybody who doesn't know it's the longest skating rink in the world. It was an old it's a functional canal, an old canal built by the military, I don't know 250 years ago, whatever it was, I don't know how old it is. And now it's literally used for pleasure craft in the summer or for this outdoor skating extravaganza in the winter, hundreds of 1000s of people skate on this thing. And our guys have to install that when it's just getting cold, because that's when they drain it. So you got guys who are wearing the like the fishing rubber overalls? Well, it's not every store because he's got four or five in the canal. But it's every year somebody falls in and falling into five degree almost frozen water. And the guys tell me all the time, everybody volunteers to go in first. Because if you fall in, you're paid but the rest of the day is off. Oh, I'm falling. But yeah, that's that's not an opening that every every year I mean,

Christopher Wells 25:59

the you've been now you said 8788. So on 35 like 3334 years, almost 35 years with with the retails in this industry. Knowing what you know now, yeah, you could do the back seat back to the future thing and go talk to Pino from 1987 1988. What would you tell him? What any advice any heads up? Anything you'd like to tell the younger Pino?

Pino 26:26

Yeah, so that's funny, because the panel I was on with the gentleman from Starbucks asked the same question. So they sent me to think about it. But it's easy, right? I can change my mind. Um, the first thing I would do, and I tell my team this all the time to stop trying to do so much. Thinking or industry, we're already all on high octane fuel. Well, like, you know, squirrel, let's go, you know what everybody's doing fried chicken loves the fried chicken, everybody's doing marketing, you know, like, you could easily get swept up up with everything. But find your North Star, and just do that. You don't have to do this. So that would be the number one. But the number two that. And this is a bit more cliche, I bet. But it's so true. really stick to your principles. And there are there are franchisees that we've approved. And one of the problems with beavertails, which is a wonderful blessing. But it's a problem is that if I opened up at a huge amusement park in Ohio, and the guy is not the best partner, we'll still do good sales, because our product is so perfect for those environments. And there's a few environments like that that really fit our brand. But that doesn't mean we should do it. And it's so cliched, but do it for the right reasons.

Christopher Wells 27:56

It's so cliche, but it's so tempting to because you're like if we have that partner there, we're going to have sales, we're going to have this ability, it's good for the brand, but not being. I mean, that's like you know, in life we've all at some point made Well, I haven't I'm very lucky with my partner. You know, we were just joking with my girlfriend before we have two kids now we've been together 12 years. Yeah, I might have made some bad decisions in the past when it comes to relationship. And I remember one of these were going in, I was like, Yeah, this is not going to end well. And but but sometimes you don't listen to your to your own your, your inner voice, but that's a really good one. Um, and I want to go back to your first point, which was focus on I guess you said what you're good at or what the, you know,

Pino 28:43

your believe most people will naturally excel at something they enjoy doing. So you're good at what you enjoy. But we call it in the office or we refer to it often. It's just a North Star. Yep.

Christopher Wells 28:58

That but that's such a good advice. I I discovered that late in life, like in the last four or five years, right, I spent my life like a lot of people trying to get better at my weaknesses. And I probably read or heard somebody say, why don't you double down on your strengths? Yep. Right. And I started doing that and associate or surround yourself with people that are better than you on your on your weaker stuff. And obviously, some of there's some stuff you may or may want to work on. Maybe more so characterized, but I find that when you double down on your strengths, it seems like you can go so much faster than trying to work on some weaknesses, that you may not have the skills or anything to get better at anyway, that you're saying. I've discovered that even when it comes with working with teams and people, like let's double down on their strengths, right and changed my view completely. And I don't even know if you'll agree with me on this but always focused I did 10 years of consulting before starting piecemeal with restaurants we know how many reps Trying to suffer and how much you know, many of them need help. But we're always focused on the results or results or results. And at some point, I changed my coaching, especially with larger teams to, on on the effort sometimes sometimes Yeah, recognize the effort because for somebody to, let's say, We quantify but to grow 25% in an area, and the other person, girls 10%, well, maybe that 10% For them required a lot more work than the other 25% Because there were some natural abilities there. So I changed my focus a lot to let's look at the effort that's applied to something instead of just the results, because your other people, and that's really changed my leadership and how I approach it,

Pino 30:38

I do that 100% And we use OKRs. In our company, it's it's, whatever, it's maybe a bit corporate, but it's a Google product. So it's not that corporate, or Google invention, and OKRs are all about, you know, don't measure the lag indicators. So you're right 25% growth, every week, you're gonna get that number, but you're not measuring the effort that goes into that. That's, it's like you're on a diet and you check your scale every three days. That's not going to help you lose weight. That's just gonna tell you if what you did three days ago, we could go work, you may not even remember today, that you're better off focusing on objectives and key results that lead as opposed to lag indicators.

Christopher Wells 31:19

I love it. I'm a big fan of OKRs. I've actually had a chance through piecemeal to give even some conferences on the subject. There's a Montreal. But if you want to check it out, there's a book called measure what matters by the inventor of OKRs was John Doerr. And I'm probably not pronouncing it properly. I listened to a book, but I don't know if you've seen that if you read the book,

Pino 31:40

that book circulating in the office. Fantastic.

Christopher Wells 31:44

Amazing book. John was at Intel. Yeah. And under now should remember that the gentleman's name, but maybe any girls No, yeah, yes. Grow at Intel. And that's where John created that then he was an advisor at Google brought that to Google. And now, you know, most companies in tech and startups and all that use OKRs. But basically, it's have basically an objective that challenges you, and then have key results that show you how you're like how you're going to achieve that and progress towards that. So I would

Pino 32:17

get exactly that. Anybody that

Christopher Wells 32:20

wants to find like, and just to come to compare for those of you have all heard about KPIs, key performance indicators, that's one thing, but I'm kind of like, you know, saying that's the result of the scale. The KPI is basically where your weight is on the scale. The OKR is how do I get to a better result on the scale? Yes. Really amazing stuff. I'm glad you brought that up a big sign of OKRs.

Pino 32:41

Do a conference on that love to have you in?

Christopher Wells 32:43

For sure. I'd love to I gave two or three actually through through some startup people in Montreal and big fan of the of that so. So I think you give some really good tips to young P No, thanks for sharing that focus on the North Star and stick to your guns. And it's funny because I think it's a second interview in a week where somebody says, What would you tell the younger self? I would I would stick to my guns and my and my principles a bit more. So So it's, again, you were saying before how humans tend to be the same. I ended different questions in the format that I've built the last couple of weeks. There's three questions that I've had two guests within the week, give me the same answer on different things, which I find that there's some commonality, I think,

Pino 33:26

certainly a trend there. Yeah, yeah.

Christopher Wells 33:28

And what are three or three people that had an influence on you and not necessarily just business wise, but who would you if I have to, you know, ask you three three people had a beautiful influence on you in your life? Who would they be?

Pino 33:42

My dad would be one typical immigrant mentality. You know, it came from Italy, he didn't speak the language, but not too typical of immigrants at his time, he went to McGill and became a chartered accountant, which was for someone who didn't know the language that's like and his two we had three kids, myself and my twin brother were partners and we were chosen my sister was an architect and that the two boys did not do well in math. So it's even more embarrassing, but we needed to not speak the language it would have made more sense but he definitely would have been big time. I think a couple my high school was very formative for me. The Jesuit High School here in Montreal Loyola and they just teach for critical thinking I think we don't do enough critical thinking these days. teach you the question they teach you not to be afraid to question and be confident that you'll get to a reasonable answer but there's a few people that would have you know, fell on the in the school as a person if that's okay. And then the third one might be the guy who, who hired me at beavertails Andy and kind of fitting because it's his birthday today. Total total

Christopher Wells 35:00

I'm way Happy Birthday to Andy Andy. And he hired

Pino 35:03

me back when I didn't get that job, but it's free and brought me in. And this was a guy who didn't have the patience for all of the the abstract side of the industry, that who pragmatically understood as much about customer service as he did about the bloody cinder blocks that are gonna fall into cold water. And it was all a can do get it done attitude. And there's no, there's no placing that. I mean, you could have everything else. But if you don't have that resourcefulness, you could ask me to build a spaceship. And he probably figured out you don't care. Yeah, there's a few more steps to this and that we could figure it out.

Christopher Wells 35:46

That's really amazing that there's, again, some great nugget, like talking about your dad, and what I hear there's resilience. And if you're going to be in business, and you're going to grow a business to 162 locations, and five countries, six countries that thinks resilience, and like Andy bringing you some some, the execution, right? I always thought ideas are easy. We you and I can come up with five different ideas today. But execution is hard. Right on paper talking, having conversation. That's easy, but day to day, are you doing what needs to get done to get the results? So yeah, getting critical thinking. I always say people need to think more, right? Let's say I want to teach my daughters the ability to think I don't have to agree with me. We don't have to think the same way. But now critical to something where too many people are basically swallowing and are being told what to think. Right? And especially

Pino 36:45

what is so true, because the extreme of that, of course, is this fake news reality where how can it be that some of these things are believed but in a much simpler, innocent, innocuous way that happens that we did well, I guess the fake news happens every day too. But simple things that we just don't take the time to question say, why are we doing it that way? And the amount of energy and stress that we give ourselves last time and last effort and life's already crazy, you know, like just Yeah, think about it. Why are we doing this?

Christopher Wells 37:19

I love that view you I'm sure you we seem to read some of the same books. But have you ever heard the story about the ham and in the in the oven, right? Right so I'll try to do it quickly just for the because if I don't then people listening but basically the the girl the woman's in the kitchen, and she cuts the in the end. And or boyfriends like were you getting that like what's wrong with those parts? She's like, I don't know, mom always did it that way. So throws it in the oven calls her mom's like, Mom, why are you Why do we cut the ends of the ham to cricket? Like, I don't know. That's how my mom taught me you know, when I was young, so so they both of them conference call grandma on her iPad. And like Grandma, why? Why did you cut the ends of the house? Like, Oh, I haven't done that in 30 years. It's just because way back when my oven was so small. I had to cut the internet. Right? So question is for three generations for 50 years have been actually grandma stop. But two people underneath? I don't know why didn't do it. Right.

Pino 38:23

But that's the worst part is grandma was smart enough to stop. But we just continue this craziness.

Christopher Wells 38:30

And sometimes, so I love that like critical thinking the ability to not to question for the sake of questioning and to being you know, argumentative. We can we can have conversations, but to say is there a better way of doing things right? And that's what brings innovation and that's what brings growth. And that's what makes our society before it is the ability to say, why have we always done it that way? Why? I mean, how many times do we see a new innovation, right? either at home or in business? And you're like, why didn't I think of that? Right?

Pino 38:58

And you know, you could be a tech genius, but those for me are the real geniuses simplicity like, wow,

Christopher Wells 39:05

yeah. My brain for years, like now I have a business. But when I was younger, like, Okay, what could I invent? What could I do? I wanted to have a business. And I was like, maybe all the good ideas have been done. And now like 30 years later, great stuff come out all the time. And why didn't I think of

Pino 39:20

that? Yeah. I'm

Christopher Wells 39:24

a little bit more personal one, but you've been in business almost 30 Well, with the business, but now I guess in ownership for 10 years, but in leadership roles for 2025? What would be that you're willing to share with us? But what would be your biggest sort of big failure that you've had and that what did you learn from that? What did you get out of it?

Pino 39:42

I know I know that one that hasn't been asked but I think about it all the time. So I know what it is, but I'm still working on it. I guess that's why it's a big failure, but not expecting everyone to be as excited as I am about a business or project or idea. And it's okay. I think a lot of leaders are leaders because they're intense that you need an intensity to, you know, you listen, we're one in the same we know each other well enough. I mean, we wake up with this energy and we joke to we have coffee to fuel as I've been known many times to have a coffee at night to calm me down before I go to bed. And that's a true story. But the reality is that that intensity is what you need as a as a leader. And people look for that, and people need that. And if you don't have that, it's too tiring to be a leader. And that's absolutely normal and fine. Oftentimes, I mean, the leader is not the most important part on the team. So all the better than not everybody's a leader. But when the leader expects everybody to be as intense, that just sets an unrealistic and unfair expectation. And maybe in some ways, that's that's empathy. Also buzzword these days where you have to think, Wait, maybe that other person is contributing a lot. Like the 16 year olds who work for us every day, in most of our stores. I could, I was an ass when I was the seven. I only started at 17. I was worse at 60. But when I started off making DVDs, as I'm sure I was the biggest asked. That's okay, they bring a flavor and an energy at the stores that is much better than anything I can contribute good for them. When I expect them to be as serious or as intense in my way. I'm ruining their gig. I'm ruining the fun, and I'm ruining wire I delivery. Yeah.

Christopher Wells 41:42

Um, I think that's absolutely amazing. There's I'm a big fan of Gary Vaynerchuk. Everything Gary and Gary says if you expect the people on your team to be as fired up about your business, as you are as an owner, like you got skin in the game, it's yours you like you're crazy. Yes. But nobody like you have to be pretty crazy to take over a huge business like do to start a business from scratch like me and AWS did to work for months, they went out. Everybody telling you you're crazy. Your loved one your friends, your family saying How dare do you think you can change your industry? Right? But but it takes that fire inside that? You can't expect everybody to have that like that's, that's not being reasonable. Right? Not that we're always reasonable, but

Pino 42:34

realistic? It's not. Yeah,

Christopher Wells 42:37

I agree we I need to I work really hard to remind myself of that all the time is that you need to level like your expectation and understand that. Like he said, some people may be contributing in a different way. But I mean, could you imagine if everybody was as intense as some of the

Pino 42:57

system would implode, we never make it off the highway anymore. We don't kill each other right there on the highway,

Christopher Wells 43:03

stabbing in the neck, and we wouldn't make it for sure. I'm really, really appreciative of you sharing that that's not an easy thing as a leader to say but it, you know, are

Pino 43:16

lots of other failures. If we have another session. I'd love

Christopher Wells 43:20

to have you. Um, you've been in our industry food service for a long time. Is there a common myth? There's some common myths about our industry, there's many of them. Is there one you'd like to debunk, or one that you'd like to kick in the spin?

Pino 43:36

Huh? While this is a good myth, but I mean it if I, you know, people say it gets tiring to be in the rush. I gotta tell you, we still have a few corporate training stores. And when I go there, and there's a lineup, and I get back in there just to help out which forbids us is easy because the menu hasn't changed and I can easily mess things up. So I got to watch to do that. But it never ever gets tiring. That that's BS. I think the people who say it gets tight. I mean, listen, we all have long days, that's fine. But if the hospitality is in you, that feeling never goes away.

Christopher Wells 44:19

You're telling me that now and I'm feeling you know, the one thing that I miss about bartending about serving about being on a floor is Friday night. Yeah, four to seven lineup, or the kitchen is just like, you know, stuff is limit like we're trying to you know, we're aiming at 20 minutes to get the dishes out. We're at 23 Okay, we need to make sure everybody's okay. And everybody's in a good mood. Like it's like a beehive people who are having a good time. There's that noise I don't I I got goose bumps. I miss it. So

Pino 44:48

yeah. What orchestras Yeah, it's in your blood, you know, we're talking about

Christopher Wells 44:54

Yeah, um, we were saying before how we can lose you know, we talk about About focus, but a little bit, but I just said our industry, we tend to sometimes, like focus, that's part of the personalities. And I make the joke. Yeah, like where we lose that focus was for

Pino 45:12

a dog in the office today. And I'm careful not to be looking at me. But yeah. But

Christopher Wells 45:19

you, so I lost my appointment before when you're talking about your failure and how the expectation of people but you're talking about the 1617 year old, I just want to bring in something because I'm curious to hear you. You're pretty progressive and your leadership and your ideas, but there's that whole crapping on the millennials thing that's very popular these days. And I'm not in management every day anymore, but I still do some events and less and less would be Smule getting very busy. But last few times, I had to manage people that were that age. I know people say all they want to be the boss before they get you know, they do the first job. They want to know everything, they want the answer to everything, they want to argue about it. And I just realized that I've always been pretty effective at communicating. I didn't have an issue with them because they knew what I expected. What I wanted, I gave them some leeway, and some some input into what was going on. And to me, that's a bunch of healthy leadership things that they want apply to them. Right? Yeah, they're not there. And I'm curious to know if that's how you seem because you have a lot of in the business, I used to manage multi units for McDonald's 20 years ago, absolutely. Working for me. But if you're open, if they know what you want, if you're you're confident as a leader, if you clear your communication, and you listen to them, when they have a point that you can either explain why we're not going to go that way, or Yeah, that's not a bad idea. Maybe we could try it out. I don't have any issue managing, working and collaborating with what they call the millennials or the younger, you're seen as well.

Pino 46:43

So you might remember this from the CTO, I'm pretty sure I mentioned this, but we have I have a neon sign in my office that used to be a 24 foot banner that greeted you at our old office. And it says, You are not it is not the strongest or the fastest of the species that survives, but the one that is most adaptable to change. And honor Organa Graham, right here that we don't have, we don't have a title. Just know, like Organa gram, you know, may 2021. That phrase, which was a management professor from Louisiana University, that phrase is at the top of the organic gram. And I've told my team many times, I see it all the time, that freezes the table, because what we're doing today may not meet the what we need to get done tomorrow. So that that said, and I've answered this many times, too. This is not you know, I'm not I don't know the average age of the person listening, but our millennials embrace change more than anybody else. So I actually want more millennials on the team. I've had problems. And this is not good. But it's true that it's the people my age, that don't want to change that actually have given me the most problems. To me, it's like get in there and let's have fun and change as part of that fun. So

Christopher Wells 48:06

I have a board right next to me or my desk, and a couple of cards birthday cards from you know, people that I love and a few you know, picture my daughter's and stuff like that. It's not there right now. And if it wasn't weird that I would get up I would go but that specific quote has been on my walls for 20 years. I think you and I like we're saying we are kindred spirits. We don't i That's that line and I'm not gonna quote it I think exactly like you said, but it says it's not the seat again. I think it's

Pino 48:39

all the strongest of the species everybody thinks is Darwin. I actually at the old office, we wrote Charles

Christopher Wells 48:45

Darwin, I always had it up on my wall to be

Pino 48:47

the internet who actually says it's often miss attributed to Charles Darwin, but it's Dr. Arrow, Leon Leon Megginson money on the first edition, but he was you know, Darwin would have made sense, this guy was a professor of management, it makes even more sense.

Christopher Wells 49:06

So it's not the fastest or the strongest of species that survive but the most adaptable to change and that means that we need to be that's the whole classic of the the oak tree that breaks in the wind while the the the the, I forget the name of the other tree, but get the kind of that's how they build buildings now, right buildings used to crumble in earthquakes, they build in with metal like materials, right? To stay up. So I think that I live by that quote. So.

Pino 49:35

You know, and I'll tell you a funny story to a young guy who workforce we used to do. Back when we had 14 of our own restaurants and now we only have the university restaurants. But this this young guy, we would do exit interviews and he was at college kid Good Good kid Rusta roster as Les was his name, and he went to work for the Quebec police force, so maybe knows your SWAT, buddy. So he went to work And before he left, I did an exit interview and I said, you know, tell me what you like about working here. And again, he was a good guy, so it's just a formality. He says, Well, I gotta tell you, I love the change. I come in one day, it's this and the other day, we're trying van and we're trying to push the envelope all the time, the change is just great. Okay, and then of course, who asked, you know, the normal? Which of your colleagues gave you the most inspiration? Which of your colleagues put you down? What what activity? Do we need to do more of a normal exit interview? And then the last I said, Okay, so I have to ask you now what, what do you like the least about working? He stopped a thought right says, You know what? I hate to change every day we come in and when they? And it's like, yeah, okay, there it is. You just, that was 30 years ago, I still remember that. It's perfect, that there's good and there's bad, but at least the building doesn't crumble to your point.

Christopher Wells 50:57

Then if you do damned if you don't, but I mean, change is part of everything we do, right? So it's either you embrace it, and you go for it, or you're miserable all the time, right?

Pino 51:06

Change will come to get you if you then will do it first. So

Christopher Wells 51:10

it's in everything is how you you approach it with your attitude, right. And now you do there's the classic thing of the guy walking on the street, and the dog is complaining and sitting on a on a on a porch. So the guy asked the owner, like, what's wrong with your dog? He's like, he's sitting on a nail, and hurts enough to complain, but not enough to move. Right. So

Pino 51:30

I love it to tell my kids. Thank you. But our conference last year, the theme because a bit like okay, I was right. So it changes is almost the ride, but what's the lead, and the lead is you have to always want to push the envelope. You always want to try and strive to do more. And hey, look, again, you don't have to do it, it'll come to get you.

Christopher Wells 51:58

But if you look at the best brands, artists, in music in anything day, right, like the best businesses a restaurant, they reinvent themselves every five, seven to 10 years. Like I mean, the core stays the core, the principles are the same share branding, the look that you know, for artists, the haircut, the gist of that. And that's how they stay fresh and they evolve, right? Anything that doesn't evolve, it doesn't grow means that it's it's, it's crippling up, it's dribbling. And I would suggest

Pino 52:26

Christopher that it's the authenticity with which you involve evolve, the fun with which you evolve. The minute it becomes a chore like oh, you have to change again, buddy change career, this is not healthy for you. It's not good for you. Try something else. You've got to just be so in the flow that you're constantly. It's a seamless change. Yep.

Christopher Wells 52:54

Really interesting conversation. We're gonna probably I mean, time flies by we're gonna jump into some rapid fire questions. But I'm curious, you do a lot of conferences, you're great energy, you know, very respected and in the business world. What's you've been get asked all kinds of questions. Some of them like you said, you just answered on a panel a couple of weeks ago. Is there one question if you're sitting in my chair? And, you know, the one question that you would ask yourself that I didn't ask her that you'd love to answer and nobody ever asks. And I'm putting a movie?

Pino 53:30

No, that's okay. Your job is to put you on the spot. I think it may be has to, you know, I'm at the age where my kids are very important to be 1512 and 10. And they're gonna grow up and start doing their own vacations and that kind of stuff. So I think these days, like the last 10 years, I've been asking myself a lot. What lessons do you want to leave with the kids? And that's, there's like a million answers to that one. And it's a work in progress. But

Christopher Wells 54:01

what would be maybe one or two things that you want to instill? I mean, we talked about a lot of stuff with the homeless,

Pino 54:09

it would fit with all of that stay true to yourself, for sure. Maybe in the growth mindset spirits, so this is not something I'm necessarily focused right these days with my kids, but it's something I always tried to teach them. And there was a book called What happy people know. And then the same it's a father daughter, you notice

Christopher Wells 54:30

no, but I

Pino 54:34

I just figured since we've read the same books, you probably read it but again, it's a father daughter psychology team. They're both psychologists. And then they wrote another one called what happy kids don't sell I'll save you the 40 bucks and the two books. Basically it comes down to curiosity. And it's the proverbial If life gives you lemons, you make lemonade the book is all about If life gives you lemons I have to teach you to be resilient, like you said before, but to be curious enough to say, what can I do with these lemons? And it was interesting. They tracked all kinds of athletes that became quadriplegics poor people who became rich with a lottery. When rich people became poor with a bankruptcy, they really and over and over again, they learned. What makes you resilient is curiosity. It's not what life deals you. It's what you do with life with what life deals you. And maybe the biggest question on a curiosity which were read, you know, thank God for Google. There's a lot of YouTube too lot of memes out there. But the lesson to distill that to one phrase for my kids, it's don't always ask, why not? Don't always ask why ask why not? Why not?

Christopher Wells 55:56

Um, limitless possibilities. When you open your mind and you're, you're open to stuff that's that's I'm, I've had three and a half year old daughter any sci fi symbol seven, eight month old one, actually. Today, I believe nine months today, I can't. And I'm learning so much from them already. I can only imagine with a couple of teams, but I'm so excited to see where it takes like there's what do I want to share with them? But I'm learning so much from them. And it goes both ways. Right? They bring you down. That's good. I love that. You know, this has been a super interesting conversation. Thank you so much for sharing. I want to throw some rapid fire at you. We got to know a little bit of you have the Italian blood. So I do enjoy a drink once in a while. Yeah. Are you your wine guy?

Pino 56:49

Well, yeah, yeah. What

Christopher Wells 56:52

do you mean? No. My question is always like, from you know, restaurant industry food industry. Are you more wine, beer, spirits? Wine?

Pino 56:58

Yeah, definitely most wine but a good Negroni?

Christopher Wells 57:02

Hmm, you and I really are friends. That's my favorite cocktail.

Pino 57:07

Every time but I replaced the gin with tequila makes it

Christopher Wells 57:13

very cute. Yeah, um, isn't that called a Rosita and it's a few names I

Pino 57:18

know when

Christopher Wells 57:23

I wanted to ask you before where's your dad from? You said that came from Italy

Pino 57:26

on the bus. So my mom was from pesky cheese on the Adriatic side, though, you know, farmland in the middle it's the northerners were doing well, they didn't leave Italy. Bankrupt, there wasn't much to leave.

Christopher Wells 57:42

Your favorite your best or favorite trip you've ever taken?

Pino 57:46

Yeah, listen, Italy. I can name two, one where I brought the kids to my parents villages. And the other one when I went to do part of my MBA in Milan, which was a more fun than it was work that I'm sure learned quite a bit in both processes.

Christopher Wells 58:02

For sure. I can only imagine bringing the kids back to the homeland, the home town and all that. That must be so special.

Pino 58:08

Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher Wells 58:11

Your favorite restaurant?

Pino 58:14

Probably Bill tiga will take a pizzeria. I'm focusing on all the Italian I feel very narrow minded. But yeah, but TIG is like custodia you know tion style, but casual but good food

Christopher Wells 58:25

rich really? can betray the bloodline, right.

Pino 58:28

Yeah, exactly. Thanks for I mean,

Christopher Wells 58:31

I'm not Italian. But I think I said that on the show before. But I had one last meal. You're the classic? Yeah, it would be pizza and burrata. That's what I want. Maybe in the burrito in the pizza. Who knows? But good for you beautiful glass of candy or something? And that would that would make me really happy. Um, three words to best describe your

Pino 58:53

intense. Funny that you could put that in quotations because my kids don't think I am.

Christopher Wells 59:01

Fine. I think I'm funny looking. But that's

Pino 59:05

exactly. Exactly. Funny, intense, and storyteller, which technically is one word, but I'm at heart and I think that's part of the hospitality. It's I always want to try and tell a story.

Christopher Wells 59:17

You're an amazing storyteller. I'll tell you that. That's what really hooked me to the presentation. I when I met you the first time and that made me want to go out and reach you and I tried to tell stories. I'm trying to get better at it. But yeah, that's definitely I think there. I don't know too much. But I think these are,

Pino 59:32

you're being very generous. But tell the kid you said that.

Christopher Wells 59:37

You on a desert island. You can bring one album of music

Pino 59:42

with Pink Floyd the wall. I mean, I might bring a rush one with Pink Floyd.

Christopher Wells 59:48

That's crazy. I've had I told you two guests that Bob Bob Marley. Great album, and you're the second the Titanic You somebody last week said the wall like I'm a huge fan of Dark Side of the Moon. I can't not I put that in and I listened to it from and but the other person said the wall so i That's amazing. And you know the

Pino 1:00:10

night I'm going to have a Negroni listening to the wall. My kids are not gonna like that. But I'm sorry, what was the inspiration for the I don't know that

Christopher Wells 1:00:18

maybe I'll I'll do that as well thinking, you know, we can get this, right. So Roger Waters was getting fed up with touring and the fans, and he was really getting really angry and a fan in a show at the Montreal, the Olympic Stadium in about 7770. Somewhere like that o'clock. Some fans climb the fence, and he spit in their face. And he didn't like his reaction. He was tired with the fans. And he was like, it's time to build a wall. And that's kind of like the idea came from a show of the Olympic Stadium. So if you're

Pino 1:00:50

an addition, bear, let the Olympic theory of what Wow.

Christopher Wells 1:00:55

Nice I was in high school, everybody in the school went by me regretted all my life not not going around there. So yeah,

Pino 1:01:03

I was at the Plains of Abraham, when he built the big Styrofoam wall where they came tumbling down at the end. Spectacular.

Christopher Wells 1:01:11

That was a few years ago, there was much more we said I was five years ago, maybe? Well,

Pino 1:01:19

I was gonna say 10, maybe eight?

Christopher Wells 1:01:22

I get I know the answer for you in this case, but I like to ask everybody, but not just for beavertails. But for restaurants in general, in the next three years, with everything we've gone through, do we open restaurants or not?

Pino 1:01:34

Yes, smaller, more intimate. More focused on the team. more equitable pay has to come. The whole minorities and we have to take care of you know, black lives matter. Plus, plus plus. And there's too many minorities that are being abused in our big restaurants because this pay structure, the economic model doesn't work. This is not the owners. It's not the employees. It's just the model. But with smaller footprints and more devotion to the art. I think we're getting to that.

Christopher Wells 1:02:07

Very cool. Thank you for mentioning that. Um, if you could have dinner with anyone, would that be

Pino 1:02:15

hair? From history living,

Christopher Wells 1:02:18

living or dead? I mean, it's a pretty open.

Pino 1:02:22

You know what, it's funny, this is maybe more of a spiritual side but St. Francis of Assisi. Okay, who gave up everything and, and, you know, I'm, I'm a heart I'm a minimalist. And I try to tell the kids you know, like, don't don't You don't need all these gadgets, you don't need all these clothes. And I'm, you know, I'm guilty of that too, obviously, like all the rest of us, but I often wonder, like, if we just gave it all up and went to feed the village, a free restaurant in Africa wouldn't be a bad way to retire as just me.

Christopher Wells 1:02:56

That's cool. I mean, that's a good thing. I mean, I mean, it's not all about the material possessions and all that it's about the impact we have on people and the impact you know, like I said, you sell pleasure and all that and that's a really fun thing. Um,

Pino 1:03:08

you know, you're so right And like they say half the fun is getting there for sure. It's you accumulated like okay, let's Yeah,

Christopher Wells 1:03:15

just cuz I got my Austin guitar house t shirt in my guitars in the words of AC DC it's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll. Love it. And one last one before I let you go and you said Netflix at the beginning when I asked you what series are you watching right now?

Pino 1:03:31

Oh my god none what was the last one? No it listened three young kids I'm not even tell you I mean

Christopher Wells 1:03:41

perfect. He said what are you reading right now?

Pino 1:03:46

Right now I'm reading the the one from way on the Shake Shack. And I usually have two or three on the go which is really bad but the other one is think again by somebody grant I've read a few of his books really like forces you to be thinking about what what you think everything again? It literally literally and the guy who wrote Adam pink he wrote no not Adam some somebody paid to have another book from him marketing though. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, that's on my nightstand. I couldn't even guess but that one I've only started but it's very fascinating stuff.

Christopher Wells 1:04:27

Um, you know the lawyer from CEO and owner, co owner of beavertails It was an honor and a pleasure to have you with us today on table 21 Thank you so much for taking the time to have the conversation with us. Am I

Pino 1:04:42

my pleasure? And my honor. Christopher always good to have the energy with you.

Christopher Wells 1:04:46

I love it for everybody else. I mean, if you had never had I doubt if you're watching this, but if you never had a Beavertail there it was 162 of them in six countries. You can find one close to you. Go have a Beaverdale And apparently chocolate hazelnut is a really popular one

Pino 1:05:03

with Reese's Pieces peanut butter not a bad choice

Christopher Wells 1:05:06

sounds like a party you know thank you so much everyone we'll see you soon cheers

Pino 1:05:10

thank you sir Ciao bye
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