Table 21 Podcast Summary: Troy Hooper Episode

In this episode of Table 21, Christopher Wells interviews Troy Hooper, founder of Kiwi Restaurant Partners (KRP). Based in California, KRP specializes in consulting, restaurant development, and management. With a deep background in hospitality, including work with Hilton and Caribbean resorts, Troy shares his expertise in scaling restaurant brands and his passion for transforming the industry.

Troy encourages listeners to reach out, offering his support and advice to help emerging restaurateurs navigate challenges and grow their businesses. With his unique combination of passion, experience, and vision, Troy provides a wealth of knowledge for those looking to elevate their operations.

Full Transcript:

Christopher Wells 0:01

Hi, everyone, welcome to this new episode of table 21. My guest today is Troy Hooper, from based out in California from Kiwi restaurant partners, they do a bunch of stuff like consulting, restaurant development, they'll help with some management and basically help some brands that want to grow. And obviously Troy's going to tell us more about that. But I thought it was exciting as I've said before and table 21 I want to have restaurant operators I'm going to have you know, suppliers, all kinds of people. Recently we had a couple people on the retail side and on the on the real estate side and I thought it was fun to have somebody that works on the development and that area. So without any further ado, I'm Troy

Unknown Speaker 0:46

Hey Chris, how are ya?

Christopher Wells 0:48

Very good yourself.

Unknown Speaker 0:49

Very good. Thanks for having me.

Christopher Wells 0:50

Good. Well, thanks for coming on. I'm very happy to have you hear if the the conversation we had right before we came on air is any sign I think the the next hour should be very interesting. So for thanks for coming. I was telling you before I find a lot of the shows a lot of more people are trying to produce content. I've seen something like there was 500,000 podcast two years ago when there's something like two or 3 million now. So there's a lot of content but not all content is good. So I find sometimes people get get down to the nitty gritty, nitty gritty too quickly. But I want to play a little game with you if you don't mind that's called this or that. Because I'd like to know Troy a bit better before we talk business. So communication is key in everything we do. Are you more phone call or text message?

Speaker 1 1:38

Ah, I've moved to text to text Yeah. A little bit

Christopher Wells 1:43

more efficient sometimes right? Yeah, get it done. Yeah. Get her done. Are you more jogging or gym lifting weights or running around?

Speaker 1 1:53

I definitely more of a weights guy lifting guy. I don't run running earnings. bad for your health.

Christopher Wells 2:00

Exactly. Runnings. Good for my dog. And football players because I saw some of the the Broncos helmets behind you. Yeah. Are you more beets are brussels sprouts.

Speaker 1 2:12

Oh, dude. Both together. Cold. Love

Christopher Wells 2:16

Nice. Low salad or warm salad. Ah, no,

Unknown Speaker 2:19

I don't like warm salad. cold salad.

Christopher Wells 2:21

Very cool. Here's a tough one for most people. Are you more chips? Or ice cream?

Speaker 1 2:26

No, no Sweet Tooth sugar. I don't do salt at all. Any of my food. When I cook I have to put salt because other people require it. But no, no. I'm one of the largest Sweet Tooth addicts in probably the United States is bad.

Christopher Wells 2:42

So I need special flavor of ice cream. If you're that or you'll go for anything. You know,

Speaker 1 2:47

I'm funny. I like I love caramel. So like the Caramel Swirl and vanilla. Just anything care about

Christopher Wells 2:54

nice. It's funny. My I love that stuff too. But my girlfriend is very chocolate and that kind of stuff. And she laughs because I'm very fruit. For some reason. My grandmother used to serve Me. raspberry ice cream when I was a kid like vanilla with some raspberries in it. And she's like, why are you having nap? Like we should eat chocolate or caramel and that's

Speaker 1 3:12

Oh, yeah, fruit. Oh, sweet fruit. Nope. It's funny. We'll lose a lot of viewers right now. I'm sorry, but I don't eat chocolate. Like it's an accent. I'll put chocolate as an accent but I will never just eat a chocolate bar or straight talk. It's just not fruit. Definitely fruit.

Christopher Wells 3:27

I mean, are you more Netflix or YouTube?

Speaker 1 3:31

Uh, you know, that's funny. Netflix dominates. But I recently kind of started watching some following some shows on YouTube. It's very new for me and we really got into it. We're big into the sailing boating yachting life and ocean life and just we found some channels where folks were had regular content shows sailing around the world so we get to virtually leave the pandemic lockdown house of California and go on a tour of Fiji or something and YouTube's been pretty pretty cool for us lately.

Christopher Wells 4:04

Yeah, there's some really cool it's funny most Netflix because even here like you know I that night we'll watch some Netflix shows. But I can go into some pretty deep holes into you know, look, looking at one video takes you to the next but I found these walks around cities like in 14. Yeah, it was like What are you watching the night I was actually folding laundry. And I was doing a walk of Hong Kong because I went to Hong Kong right before the pandemic and I was like, Oh, I was there. I was there. I don't know if you'll see my hotel but and these these things are in 4k and they're pretty cool. Yeah, get you out of the house.

Speaker 1 4:34

Before you go somewhere. Yeah, absolutely. Very cool.

Christopher Wells 4:38

So you're based in LA? So I don't know if there's gonna be a but you've lived in Denver. So this question I don't know where I'll take you but are you more beach or mountain?

Speaker 1 4:47

Beach? Yeah. 100% We just spent five days in the mountains. I'm fortunate my family has a home up in Lake Arrowhead here in California. So you get to go to the mountain you know, in an hour and a half but no, no, I'll be gone. I'm from Miami. I lived in the Caribbean. I grew up on boats and worked in the yachting world. So it's all ocean and beach and islands for me.

Christopher Wells 5:09

That's amazing. Where were you in the Caribbean?

Speaker 1 5:12

I lived in a little island called saiba. Just south of St. Maarten next to St. Barts. I lived there for almost three years and then spent time in Bimini in the Bahamas opened a resort there so that was a work thing but I've been to almost every island to islands in the Caribbean I haven't been to many of them in too many times. I'm a big fan of the Caribbean but now we're on the west coast so I'm looking at that South Pacific and that Fiji and all those fun places out there all me now

Christopher Wells 5:41

there's so many beautiful places and you're making me want to travel right now I am years ago we spent the weekend St Maarten I'm based in Montreal I'm French you know originally so the

Unknown Speaker 5:52

French side is nice.

Christopher Wells 5:54

Yeah and man like the kind of girl yeah and then we went to NASA last year with the family right before COVID And I was pretty amazing to Paradise Island and all that so that was a very I love the Caribbean pretty cool places

Speaker 1 6:09

Yeah. Easy places to get to I'm I'm in out Island kind of guy I want to be where the least number of people are the least impact I don't need all the shopping I just want to get away but yeah, for inside of St. Martin's nice but St Maarten for me. It was like Walmart when you live in a little island nearby St. Martin's where we went to go shopping.

Christopher Wells 6:26

Of course. Yeah. I mean, we're I'm still new to that. I'll get to the deeper islands and get to the sweet spots. Last question on this or that? Are you more tea or coffee?

Speaker 1 6:39

Tea guy my whole life but cold tea iced tea. I'm from the south. So iced tea, but I like my coffee. Like I like my ice cream. Sweet. So basically, I drink ice cream and a cup that happens to have some coffee for the caffeine in it. Yeah, so I'm not actually a coffee drinker. I just add coffee to things that are sugary and sweet to get the load. It's a vehicle.

Christopher Wells 7:01

So if I say cocktail, you're a mudslide kind of guy and then just throw an espresso on top or something. Yeah, absolutely

Speaker 1 7:07

loving espresso mudslide. Yeah, absolutely.

Christopher Wells 7:11

Nice. Well, thanks for playing my little game. It's fun to get a bit more context into into you and background into you. How so? You've been in the business a long time. If we look at your pedigree, you've worked for brands like you know, Hilton, and like you said, you opened resorts in the Caribbean now. You're leading the team at Kiwi restaurant partners. What do you guys do? Well, actually, even before what do you guys do? But how did you get to hospitality? Like what? What brings young Troy to our industry?

Speaker 1 7:41

Yeah, you know what, my dad loves to throw a good party. My dad was owned construction companies, but really just love to have a good time and, and, and have some drinks and have some friends over. He's actually famous for having a 72 hour New Year's Eve party every year. And this is where it started. Believe it or not, is where it started very young. 567 year old Troy dad's making, you know, meat trays now that gotta think the 1970s and early 80s Guys, you know, the sunken fire pit, you know, or living room. But you know, Dad's making pies and Riku and making me trays and so one of the things I could do very young is be creative is make up a cheese and meat platter like today we all love shark couriers or curries, like the big thing now, well was back then too, and at a different time. And so I just got the joy of being able to be creative to be able to contribute, be proud of providing this to people to our guests. Like, the whole idea of hospitality was really just ingrained from day one. And I always grew up just saying I wanted to be a chef. And so I went to culinary school the day I was able to get in, you know, 18 years old. I went to culinary school in Miami at Johnson and Wales and thought that I wanted to be a chef. You know, I add too many curiosities. And so the first kind of major adversity I spent three years cooking in a couple of different kitchens, through culinary school and after, and I was going to college as well, I finished close to going into college for business. And I had some unfortunate bad chaps and bad managers that were terrible and bad, just bad people, you know, and that typical screaming throwing the pan kicking out to get taken away shifts, you know, whatever, you know that it not just to me, but just in general, that environment. And so I walked away from culinary and said, Well, I love cooking and I love hosting and there's got to be another way I can use this right and so I went into the business and management side. I was a kitchen manager quite Funnily, I was very young, 19 years old, and the Hurricane Andrew took out Miami and I got a job at Bennigan's and they quickly made me kitchen manager it was just a matter of needing bodies right and the volume They're the number one Bennigan's in the country because of the volume, we were the first restaurant open, closest to the, to the disaster zone, you know, and so man just indoctrinated fire right in fire we were doing it was seven nights a week, two and a half, three hour wait from the minute we open till 2am Great just people come in just because they needed a hot meal and get out of the stuff. So that really is where it all started for me and and the business side and the ordering and the logistics and working with vendors and, and understanding the p&l that started very young, and I just got addicted to it.

Christopher Wells 10:35

Really cool. And I bet with that environment that busy you the learning curve is really quick. And you you get to Uber fast. I did the same thing, working for McDonald's. And when I was like 24. And then it's one star, two stars, three stars, same team, and they're growing. And they're like, Okay, this is an accelerated curve of learning here, right? But you learned so much. So that takes you through a bunch of different experiences you you you've opened up resorts, you you've you've worked in different ways, and then eventually you, you start Kiwi restaurant partners. When was that? How long have you been with this specific company? Well,

Speaker 1 11:16

I've always done some consulting, right, I've always been consulting on the side. And so I had a company called QE hospitality partners for a very long time. And because because I was really in the hotel hotel f&b resort, when I got into private clubs and golf clubs, and so it wasn't an exclusive the restaurant with a very big f&b Focus. And then about in 2018, I had an idea, and I wanted to be able to do more in the restaurant space. Right, coincidentally, my father in law's big dog in the franchise world for 40 years. And, you know, we got to talking about it and said, Look, I think there's some things we can do together. And so I created a spin off so KR p q restaurant is a spin off of QHP really, they're the same companies, you know, sister companies with just, you know, diverging focus, so that we can have people that just work on one area or the other and really focus better in those expertise areas to to be diversified, but be very deep in each of those alleyways that we chose to work in. And so that's how K RP was born. Caterpie was born to be an umbrella company, really, to what nourish and what we're gonna talk about later, is all about, but in the interim, has continued to do the consulting and management and franchise work that, that that we did at QHP, but really focused on restaurant concepts, new brands, new emerging concepts, and genres of cuisines etc. So we really like to be in that, that new space and forging the new, the next thing really, in QSR, fast casual, predominantly, but I have a fine dining background despite Bennigan's and a fine dining background and in resorts and hotels. And so we tried to bring that sensibility and that quality, and that attention to detail into that fast casual and QSR space.

Christopher Wells 13:09

For sure. And, and that's a really good point, actually, that the the perception that you can only put attention to detail in fine dining, and sometimes it doesn't matter. I mean, it might, you know, the principles are the same when it comes to management, whether you're managing QSR, or fine dining or fat casual, anything in between. But the practices of how we do it may change. But I did consulting for years to and I always told my, my clients and the people I collaborated with, if you give a four star service and what's considered a three star restaurant, right, where you build loyalty and right you're, you're making people come back and you're, you're maximizing your return on investment for marketing, right? If it got you your acquisition costs and bringing somebody in if they come back 234 times. So just bringing that level of service a little higher than what people would expect in an environment like yours can have such a huge impact. So

Speaker 1 13:59

expect was the word right? They expect three star and you're able to over deliver, right? Always under promise over deliver, but be authentic and be real. But absolutely, if you can walk into a space and have a mindset of what you're going to get and this is kind of to me how gastropub you know gastropub that's fancy, well, that just means that local dive bar got a really good chef or cook. Right? It went from crappy fried junk, horrible food to wow, it's please got good food now. And now Now you're gastropub but I love those are that's my favorite genre. And but the same thing you walk in, you're like, Okay, I mean, I know what I'm getting here. I'm in a dive bar and all of a sudden, a tomahawk steak comes out, you know, at $95 and you're sharing it and you're like, This is greatest thing I've ever eaten. So exactly. The point is, is you can set the people you have to beat their expectations at everything you do

Christopher Wells 14:51

consistently, which is where some people fail if they manage to hit certain things, but then they don't do it over time and that's where it hurts a little bit and it can hurt a brand for sure. I want to talk about the brands you're building. But before that, I said in the intro with therapy, you do some consulting, some development, some some even management and guiding people, I'm guessing some hand holding would, and you can correct me, but I'm guessing, supporting, hand holding, helping people that have an emerging brand or a brand. They want to bring somewhere and say, How can we help you scale and go to the next level? Would that be fair assessment?

Speaker 1 15:25

Yeah, it you know, the generalists are not always well regarded. But the beauty is that we have such a breadth of experts on our team, that we are able to handle and focus on any area. So we will do a single department area of your business, you know, revitalization, rebrand, turnaround, I'm a turnaround specialist. So I go into businesses look at the entire thing, break it down from 100,000 feet to an inch off the ground, and then re engineer you know, inside out that that's what I do. But we have people on our teams that are very specialized, you know, my partner, Mark is building franchises from the ground up. That's what he does systems, processes, manuals, and training, pick big picture, you know, stuff. So you Okay, ERP is able to do any of that where we like to live, is you have one to three stores, maybe four stores, you've you've grinded it out, you're killing it, you really want to expand, but you really just don't know what the next step is. Right? And, and you've, you've just, you've, you've built it up as best you can. But you really do need somebody who has that experience, that expertise, knows the roadmap knows the not the shortcuts, but knows how to get from A to Z, efficiently and with you know, with an appropriate investment without wasting, because unfortunately, a lot of people just waste a lot of money, trying to figure it out, when if they just hired some help, they probably would have got there faster, spent a lot less and made a lot more. So yeah, we we like to live anywhere in the restaurant space will will work with you and help you out. But we really want to be your partner we say no to more opportunities than we take. Because it's really about a mindset. We are entrepreneurs we've owned and operated our own and other people's businesses. And so we look at everything globally. And so if you want us to just worry about this really minute little thing, it's never the one thing, the thing you think is the problem is just the symptom, right? So they look at things like we're your partner, like we co own it, you know, we're more like the Prophet, I think he's on CNBC. And we come in and look at the whole thing, and really have an idea about all the areas of the business that we can help you with, to get you to that big picture, right? Don't don't just pour medicine on the symptom, let's let's look at the total cause and, and get you where you want to go. And we're that partner, we're that in the trenches in literally rolling up sleeves, on the line behind the register, getting that intelligence, understanding that customer, understanding your culture, and helping you develop what it is the vision you have is to get where you want to go.

Christopher Wells 18:09

Very cool. Um, you, obviously, like you said, there's brands that you'll work with that are in a certain place where they're driving, and sometimes it's getting that information. And a lot of people like well, I made this for myself, I can make it further but sometimes these can be costly mistakes, and there's a lot of things that can you know, blindside you. So getting a team and you have a pretty good sized team to from from, from what I looked at your website that

Speaker 1 18:34

your team? Yeah, we've got a really deep bench. And every everybody on our team is there for a reason, right? We have a specialist in every area of everything hospitality. So it you know, hotel all the way through QSR. And everything in between, we have people on our team that have 20 plus years experience in all the departments and all the areas being the executive general managers, regional managers, national franchise leaders, you know, CEOs of Fortune 100 companies, so these people on our team are deployed with purpose, right. So that's what when I say generals, that's what allows us to focus on any problem in any organization in the hospitality space and for krB specifically in the restaurant space, is we've built this deep bench of really talented, wonderful people to like, the great thing is when you're in this echelon of of company, you know, everybody thinks people have big heads and then hospitality you can have a lot of big ads, but this group is all humble and really the heart is we want to help it's the heart of hospitality for us. We're, we're servant leaders, and we want to, we just want to help get you where you need to go and where you want to go and be as successful as you think you can be. And for us, you know, we want to we want to hold your hand we want to work with you as closely as To help you get there,

Christopher Wells 20:01

yeah, that's so amazing. I think that's the great, you know, that's the best approach to it to see it as a partnership and seeing like, we want to see you succeed, and we want to save you some time. And my dad's always said, you know, experience is like a toothbrush. Nobody wants to use it after you. But sometimes it's worth it around yourself by the people who know it. Um, would you have some tips I'd love to hear you on. A lot of times, you said before, there's people like you pass more opportunities than you jump on. Because either it's not a fit, you know, culturally with them or your team, or you don't think necessarily the people that people are in the right place. I've seen that many times in consulting, right, where other people may have taken the gig, but I was like, You know what, for different reasons, I don't think I can help you. And that would not be beneficial to you or fair for me to, you know, pursue this this partnership. But what are some if the people you work with, I don't know about you, but you were saying when I go in, I'm a turnaround guy. And that's what I've done a lot of as well. I know what you when, when I started, I was working on a, you know, 100 things I wanted to attack. And in the end, I was working on about two, three, maybe four or five things that basically turn stuff around very quickly. When you work with emerging brands that want to grow, what are some of the two or three most common things that you see that are opportunities for them? Like I you know, I don't like the word weakness, but, but if we can help you guys in these two, three areas, then we can put the rocket ship on this and help you expand, are there a couple of things that you see more often that our viewers meet me, you know, me may get enlightened

Speaker 1 21:33

by? Yeah, slow down, have patience. You know, I may invoke Gary Vee a couple times here, there's a lot of life left, you're going to be doing this until you're whale, okay. And we hope you are because it means you've done something right. You know, take take the negative and ego sides out of some of the issues. But what I see most often is people want to go from A to Q to to triple Z tomorrow, and don't want to respect there is a process. Look, we do it faster than just about anybody else. On especially on the franchising side if you're ready, but everybody's at a different place. And so there is a need to take a step back, and analyze everything. And look, I can analyze a business in a handful of hours, I can eat two meals there and observe enough to give you a nine page report. But the reality is, is let's take 30 days or whatever it is three weeks, and really understand what's going on. Where did you come from? How did you get here? What pieces and parts are missing? Because here's what I find most really successful 123 store operators or teams are just soldiers, they just grinded it out. They just they willed it to be right. And they're killing it. But they never stopped to look at areas that they didn't address. Right. And it's always process system, you know, whether it's an SOP or you know, the the point of sale is always a disaster, because you just keep adding, you know, you

Christopher Wells 23:05

make items and yeah, it's

Speaker 1 23:09

like my explorer, like, I probably have the same file 42 times for everything. Because every time I go to look for it, I think of it in a different way. And I move it there, you know. So there's the sort of the fundamentals at the end of the day, it's the fundamentals. And it's either a lack of knowledge, which you know, a lot of people that succeed come from outside the industry, right, and they will it to be and so they get where they are, but they don't know, they don't know what they don't know. And so for us to be able to take the microscope and really, and from a big, big outside, look all the way down to the minute and then come back and say okay, here's the gaps, here's the opportunities, here's the things we would do, change, enhance, amplify, you know, take to the next level, you've had a great idea maybe didn't hire the graphics guy to do logo logo might need a little touch, you know, whatever. We look at the entire thing from how do you become McDonald's, right? How do you become Chipotle, and that's everybody's thing. I want it we're the next Republican. I can't say how many times I hear we want to be the chipotle of whatever. Great, fantastic. You can be that but you can't get there without looking inward. And taking opening up the book, so to speak, opening up the closets. Let's find those skeletons. Because at scale, those skeletons will sink you Period, end of story, a lack of those things and I'm in California, it's a fantastic place to be and have an understanding about business and and employees because it's one of the most difficult and challenging and litigious places in the world. To be in business, especially in the restaurant business is very difficult. So it's a great place to be a benchmark for anywhere else. If you can, if you can. Less than California you can essentially survive just about anywhere else. And a couple places you can say that for but even New York with all its regulation, but you know, stop taking Breath, realize there's a process here. The tip is, you're going to get there. And you're going to get there faster and more efficiently if you take a couple steps back and clean up the insides here and set yourself up for success, so that you can replicate because replicating is all about, you're not being there all the time. You can't be at 710 1215 20 stores, you can't, and you can't hire enough family members and friends that you don't want to look out for your you've got to have this process put in place for sure.

Christopher Wells 25:34

I love that. And the way you said it, the when you have people are in there grinding, working hard and having the results. But that's something I've always said to writers as an operator, of course, you're going to have to be there. And you're going to want to be there with people in the trenches to live and understand and have an impact on the culture. But you have to be able to have a view over your business. And like you said, take a step back, take a look at it and say what does the business need right? Now what my boy, yeah, what I want, but what does the business need to succeed? And then eventually, what do I need to do if I want to be able to duplicate that so many times I've worked with people are like, well, this is nice that you do it. But if you get kidnapped by aliens, God forbid are hit by a bus, how are you going to you know, so this means you can't duplicate that and stores 345 1015 Chipotle 1600, or whatever it is. So really good stuff. And if we were to push a little further in that when you work with people, I'm sure that you've lived the same thing that I have wind up pretty much having to focus on the same stuff. But I want our listeners and I want people to hear this. Operationally, what are some of the weaknesses that you see? I mean, you've worked like you said in f&b and hotels, with your clients now and all that. What do you see operationally as as being the weak spots that tend to come back over and over or I should say opportunities, again, that people can can attack and get the most results I would have quickly?

Speaker 1 27:05

You know, I think there's, there's still, especially in the single unit operator, first couple stores, there's the mentality, especially when they go to Open store two and three, if we build it, they will come our reputation will replicate. And just because you survived at the corner of Avenue and Avenue and street B, you go three blocks over, especially depending on your market that doesn't replicate, those people don't know you, okay? And so in the restaurant space, if you get your systems processes down, and you can replicate operationally everything identical, it may still fail. And actually, we see store three is almost always the store that failed. I have three stores and one's not doing well or I have five stores and one and that one's doing okay, and the other ones really failing, we got to close it. That's just kind of a lack of understanding that just because you exist over here and do really well. There's a formula and it may be a secret sauce and it may be the universe and who knows what's happening there galactically, but that's succeeding. And this isn't and more often than not, you just kind of lived on that, that wish and a prayer that oh my gosh, I'm doing so good here. Of course, I'm gonna do it there. So marketing in the restaurant world is the most undervalued underspent under understood elements of communication, right, ladies, just you can't just open the door, turn on the light and how people are going to show up, especially today, right? It's just the world has changed. And so that's really hard for people to understand. And you only have even if you've only been in the restaurant industry, 10 years, right? Facebook didn't exist, what 12 years ago, you know, YouTube, Instagram, all these things are it's too much, right? You've got to get help. You've got to have a plan, you've got to understand what the consumer needs from you to make a decision that they want to try you or they want to come back. Of course, execution consistency, you said it earlier, my number one word in the entire universe is consistency. Because we are fickle, I will go somewhere three times and if on that fourth time, they really let me down service food, whatever. I might come back a fifth time just to make sure they didn't that just was a bad night, I'm going to give you the greatest thing. But boy, but most consumers don't. Right? They you get one shot every time it's like the first time in a lot of cases. So you've really got to take take a step back and realize that if you properly spend and plan and deploy and you get help in your communication, in your design in your deployment of ads and advertising and marketing messaging, you can set yourself apart because in the space, most people aren't doing it well. Yeah. Or at all and making

Christopher Wells 30:00

No, for sure. Very good. Very good insights. I'm, as you said also, before, when you want to grow, a lot of times people, obviously, you know, you don't have no family members, like you said, to have people to trust and to make sure that they care for the business like you do. How do you help people? Or even how do you approach having building teams like we're I'm sure you guys live in here. It's a it's a, it's been a subject for years, but that the lack of, of workers of finding, you know, quality people that stick around and all that, how do you build? How do you build from within? And how do you make sure that people will have the team that they need to grow and to be able to expand?

Speaker 1 30:42

Yeah, don't look, this is a big subject, right? We could do an entire show or two on this. But number one, people are not a tool, they are not your instrument to achieve your goal, right? People are there people, like people have lives, and they have aspirations, and they have goals. And whether you're in a market like now where it's very competitive, because there's a lot of opportunity for people with the maturity of the internet, right to make money. Most of your employees have side gigs, period, half it was a podcast and their creators and they're on Instagram, they're tick tock, and you don't even know it. Do you know your employees? Do you know them as real people, that's number one, because that investment of interest in time will gain back 10x the loyalty that you that you hope for right, paying them well, giving them a good schedule, feeding that these are that that's not buying anybody any Loyalty. Loyalty is a human to human contact connection. And, and you've got to start with that. So you've got to be authentic, you've got to be genuine. And look, if you've got a rough personality, or just understand what your strong points aren't, your weak points aren't lean into them, you know, and you'll attract customers, you attract your customers come to you because of you and what you do, and your employees do the same. So it's okay. You know, in South Florida, there's this pizza joint bunch of New Yorkers, a it wasn't a stick, like there's places that do these things as a stick. But everybody in there was a jerk. And it wasn't for fun. Like, they just like, be cool, like, chill, like I went in there. It's just scared. But everybody was the same in there, right? They attracted that kind of people. And the customers were New Yorkers, that were used to that and loved it, and could banter back and yell that great. That's a universe that built itself. Now understand what your culture you want it to be, and who you really are living authentically and attract those people. And then you've got to give people a path, you've got to say, look, here's the reality of what the situation is, I want to grow, I want to expand, what that means is, I have to do other things. And I need people like you to do the things I've been doing. And I need you to do them with heart and passion and love. And as much as you can be as much like me in this area. And I want to reward you with for that you know, and you've got to build those relationships, you've got to sit down and get to know these people that work with you and give you their time. Because they're not doing it for the money, period, end of story. That money is not the number one factor for staying or going in any job by anybody. People walk away from money and take lower paying jobs, for better culture, more promise of a future, whatever it is more time off. Freedom, whatever it is, right? Yeah. Don't Don't say, Oh, I gotta pay them more. And I hear that on a lot of places right now. That's not the answer. paying them more is not the solution.

Christopher Wells 33:46

That's amazing. I love that you bring the human element into it. And it's like building that relationship with them. And so many people think it's it's the money or it's the beer at the end of the shift, or whatever. And I am, yeah, I I saw a study recently that was actually done in hospitality, where they did a test between more money, like a bonus. Yeah, beer and pizza at the end of the week if we achieve certain things. And the other one was compliments by your manager. Yeah. And I'm sure you'll know what went further. Yeah, definitely. Money was last than the pizza was appreciated. But what really meant something to people was that that appreciation that tap on them, and sometimes it's not even just appreciation. It's not just being told you're good, because you're good. Sometimes it's being told, hey, you know what, I appreciated that but we could have done better on that. And that can I challenge you on this and try to approach it this way and help people grow when people know that they're growing within a business. They feel that they can go somewhere right and I think that's that's so overrated. Actually, I should say underrated but but taking that time to get to know people is very underrated. And

Speaker 1 34:49

let me give you some quick hot tips here. And I'm not patting myself on the back. Yep. When you see a group of people grinding out and getting their ass kicked on a Friday night. There's some fun opportunities and at the end of the night, when it's the craziest and busiest I learned this at Bennigan's in the middle of it just was never going to stop right that the hurricane thing was six months long. It was never an end. I learned this here and I've replicated it. Stop everything in the highest point busiest most tickets on the board, stop everything, pull everybody into the kitchen, and say, I know what you're going through. You guys are kicking ass. Thank you. Let's go keep up the energy, we're going to get through this. I would walk out with a service tray, I would stand in the server station doorway to the kitchen with a service tray with shot large shot glasses, rocks, glasses of Red Bull. So I burn a dozen Red Bull. And everybody get a half a can or a quarter can or 30 cans of Red Bull cheers as they walked in the kitchen, like take a shot, take a Red Bull, take a Red Bull have this. Most of them thought it was liquor half the time. You know what, here's the reality, a shot of beer, you know, a cold, refreshing beer, you give them two ounces of beer, Ain't nobody getting drunk and having an OSHA complaint or workman's comp complaint. Now that's a little controversial, I know. I would leave, I would leave the building an hour before the shift cuts started, I started to see okay, people are gonna start getting cut and going home. I'll be right back management, hold it down. Don't let anybody go home. Don't cut anybody. I'll be right back, California, and we go to In and Out Burger. I'd order 50 In and Out burgers and fries. And it would take 2030 minutes. And I'd be back in 45 minutes. And as you walked out, if you want to stay and stand around and eat with us great. And of course, at the end of the night, you had the last bit of the shift. And I would sometimes I've done it twice, right? Do it. If you have 50 people going home at night, you know, do the front half and do it for the last year and get the kitchen feed the kitchen. God please be the kitchen, you know, these unexpected moments, right? That's all I'm saying. Perform authentic human touches with your team, when they least expect it. And when they least expected is when we're in the weeds and we're getting our butts kicked, and we're having fun. But it's hard. And we're sweating. And you know, a pat on the back and a keep it up is great. But it's not always viewed as you see me you know my needs. And it's a little bit of empathy, right? If you've actually worked all the areas of the business, there's managers that have it. That's okay, you need to learn this, you have to understand what your people are going through and get on their team. And yes, rolling up sleeves and working the line and X bowling is all part of that. That's viewed as what you should do. Right? What you can and could do are other things that that really is what you should do.

Christopher Wells 37:38

Amazing tips. I love that. And yeah, investing money to show your appreciation and means a lot. But like you said, just stopping everybody saying, everybody come here, like we're rocking this, we got this, you guys are amazing. Like, you get that feeling. You said it then I was feeling like I was getting goosebumps. And I was like yeah, man, like we got this and it, it kind of brings you back to oh my god, we're pretty amazing. And we're doing some outstanding stuff. So that that's a really, really good tip is that human element? Right. And, and one thing one question, I've been asking a lot along that line of it's hard to find employees, it's hard to keep them and so and so. Have you ever asked yourself, would you work for yourself? Right, right. Great. And if you don't, then then start looking like you said before, start looking inward and asking. Okay, I understand I might be rough. Like I said before, some some people are rough. Some people are not, you know, Mr jovial, or happy or this and that's fine. But treat people like humans. And you said you said your word consistency for me is the secret word in the restaurant business. But I think as a human being as a leader, the secret word for me is empathy. Yeah. And you said that and empathy is not sympathy is not a cry with you. Empathy means I can put myself in your shoes, and try to see things from your point of view. Because that doesn't mean I'm going to bend everything we do to fit your point of view. That means I can maybe explain things or, or treat you in a different way. Right? The classic of treat people how you want to be treated, I say treat people how they want to be treated, and bring them in to your

Speaker 1 39:11

to about I'm trying to keep it clean. Nobody cares about how you want to be treated. They care about how they want to be treated, and it's different for everybody. That's another point. Again, what was the last time you took your line cook or your prep cook? Or if you if you have a janitorial staff, what was the last time you sat down with them in a booth, slid them over a piece of pie or cake, handle them a beer or whatever? And said hey, how are you doing? What do you need? What's going on in your life? You know, that takes time that takes effort. It takes give a shit but it pays off 1000 acts like period. If your motivation is simply to earn loyalty and not have turnover. It's worth it. But if your motivation is man, I really want to invest in my people and have a relationship and understand them and give them what they need. Understand. Everybody's different, everybody else's, everybody's motivations is different. And what I usually tell teams, especially in turnaround when I walk in on day one, but I tell all my teams, anybody I hire, look, I know you're not going to do this the rest of your life, you're going to be a bartender server Buster for the rest of your life, your might about 15% of you probably will stay in the industry and work your way up the ladder. And that's great. And I'm going to give you everything you need. But I understand that the experiences here if you really appreciate them, and you really do your job to the best of your ability, and you let me show you what that looks like. And you let me help you that that skill is going to translate to whatever you want to do the rest of your life. Trust me, it's the military. Why do you why do kids that don't know what they want go in the military and come out with intense focus and understanding and process and it's the same story, I tell them, I know that, okay, I'm not trying to make all of you general managers have multi platform restaurant businesses here. What I'm trying to do is succeed in my business, but help you succeed in your life. And if you do that, it's over. You'll have the best people recruited, they'll bring their friends and family that they know are nice and good people, they will refer the jerks have their circle to your restaurant to work.

Christopher Wells 41:16

These are amazing, amazing tips and nuggets. You and I don't know each other a lot. But obviously, like I said before, principles are principles, right? They don't change practices may change, but I totally agree with you. And it's, it's it's hit me really hard. When after maybe 1012 years, I was running multi units for one of the if not the biggest, you know, brand in the world and a former employee, he was 16. Back then when he worked for me 15 Even when he started I think, which was like, you know, 14, here's the law. And yeah, and he was telling me a story about how I told him one night he was complaining because he had to put out the grease in the grease bin outside. And it smells like you know, pretty horrible if you've ever done that. And you said you told me and he says I remember that to this day in his job. And he's a radio host now and he says when I do something I don't want to do it smells like a bit like beer. And I said, I told you that he's like, Yep, I was complaining about doing putting the grease out. And he said, Can you smell that? And he's like, Yeah, of course I can smell that says no, no. I said, Can you smell it? It smells like beer. He's like, Well, I said, because soon and I said that he's 16 You can drink at 18 here. But I guess I was going for a beer and not him. Disclaimer, but I said it smells like beer. Because once we're done with this, we're closing up shop, and we can go and see our friends and do something else. Right. But it had hit him that if his frame of mind was positive about that. But you know, that was working for me, and a burger chain at 1516. And then at 26 728 years old, it's still something that followed him and I had that happen a few times. And we don't know the impact we have on the people that work with us when we take that time to treat them like human how it's going to follow them like you said all their life, right? I had the same conversation about why I was being a dick about how to pass out a sweep the floor. And I said if you do this excellently in 10 years, you'll you'll still have that standard. And that that in your work. And that's going to anything you want to do in life, it's going to follow you right? So I love how you bring that and, and it's building that, that that team unit that empathy and like you said, I love it. When you said when's the last time you sat down with that line cook and slid that piece of pie. I don't know how you approach it. But I always said if you don't sit down with everybody at least once every three months to have an impromptu talk about how are you doing? How are things at home are things at work. And this is how I learned who's leaving who's who's going to Australia for a trip next week, or next month or in a few months. And it gives me an idea of who I'm going to have to rehire and all that. So these are amazing intelligence.

Unknown Speaker 43:34

Yeah, it's serious intelligence. You get it. And Susan's tomorrow.

Christopher Wells 43:43

My friend, given these talks, so

Speaker 1 43:45

yeah, yeah, it's just too powerful not to do it. And, you know, the other side is, is I understand if you have a lot of people, you know, like, you talked about multi unit, look, most organizations I've ever run are well over 100 150 people minimum. The other side of that is give permission, oh, open door policy is bullshit, give permission, tell them, I have expectations of myself. If I make a promise, or say we're going to do something, or I'm gonna take care of something, and I don't do it, please let me know hold me accountable. You have to hold me accountable. And and you trust me, they will especially now, and most young millennials and Gen Z's will tell you like it is without you asking, but you got to open that door and make yourself available so that they will come to you and and with anything with life look the best. Somebody comes in my office and close to the door and is crying. All things stop and turn off the computer. You've got to be a human and be like, what's going on? Because if you don't, the ripple effect through your business is disastrous, right? You've got to care enough that when you say the doors open and you say you can come to me and about anything I really you know, and then there's times you have to be willing to say Look, I can't Do we don't have the bandwidth right now? We don't have the money right? Now, we want to do that. And it's a great idea. Why don't you go work with two other people come back with my options, we go do the internet search, like, look, help me, you know, and and people will people will go, okay. And then and they go and grab two people and it's a project and they come back with ideas. And now you have new to go packaging or now you have better lighting in the doorway, or, you know, the bathroom is smelling better, whatever the problem was that they wanted to take ownership of, you got to empower your people and give them the freedom to do it. What's the worst that's gonna happen, you're gonna end up right back where you were, and nothing changed,

Christopher Wells 45:38

you're not gonna burn the place down, right? I mean, there, you have people that you trust that are there, like, give them the power to learn to grow. And you'll be sometimes most of the times, like you said, you may be in the same place. But most of the times, you'll be surprised where they come up and what they can do. So empowering people and showing them that you give them the power to be all they can be, will make them 10 times more efficient, or five times more efficient to what they do. So that's amazing stuff. And obviously, you help other people build a brand, but you guys at Kiwi are building your own brands, and I want to hear about nourish. I want to know where it came from where it's going. Tell us about that? Yeah,

Speaker 1 46:17

thanks. Appreciate that. That's exactly right. We got a bunch of old guys over here on the youngest probably at 45. And we've all been there done that and, and I wanted to do something of our own, I wanted to take all of this knowledge and access to experience when and resources and, and build something that we think as anybody who starts a business we think we can do it better. We're kind of gap people we see gaps in places, I created a brand called sandwich without the vowels snd WCAG. A number of years ago, eight years ago, my head six years ago on paper, and you know, all that it's been a journey, but you know, finding a gap in in in genre and and the world has changed and changes. It's changing exponentially faster rate every day. And so one of our consulting clients was mangia Organica, a one off better for you organic, traditional Italian eatery in New Jersey, intentionally built in a lower income black and brown community to bring healthier food options to that area. And also to proof that the stereotypical what people want to eat because of what their background is, or what community they live in is BS. People want a good healthy, clean, tasty food period. So it doesn't matter what it is. And so we got together now I have two brands. And we had some more ideas. And we had tested some other ones. And we had some partnerships. And ultimately, we ended up with eight owned brands new and unproven and proven. And we're sitting here going okay, what is the commonality of all of our mindset, the commonality of we want to serve reasonable sourced seasonal, quality, clean, organic, healthful food. We want to do it in authentic cuisine, ways menus, we want to bring options to people who their options are not fantastic Panda Express. And then, you know, the advent of the ghost kitchen is what really changed our mindset. We were really, we were actually, we actually finished designing to Mondrian because in New York, New Jersey, right before this all kind of changed on us. And we were going to do the one off thing there were going to be sandwiches everywhere in monjas everywhere and rat river barbecues everywhere. And we realized you know, the world's changed and it is going to quickly go from where we are today to where it is now and beyond. So ghost kitchen virtual branding What is all this let's get into this and and we're what we figured out was the one shop, one stop food haul as small of a format as you could get it make a lot of sense, and that people want good clean, healthier food options. And sweet greens can only go so far. Right? They said chop stop. I had one across stream for me that had four days a week probably you can only eat so much salad to be honest with you. You really. And so we wanted to bring options in that genre of that space. But we wanted to do it in some fun ways. Have you ever had healthy barbecue? I betcha you think your Chinese foods healthy and is really not right? American Mandarin eyes Chinese is not healthy. You know PanDa has this beautiful cabinet of fresh cut vegetables and then it all comes out Brown. And they'll slide and breaded and we're on there. So that was the impetus right and nourish actually we realized we needed to name the darn thing. I said what happens when we put All these brands in a building? What are where are people going? What are they going to what are we going to call this thing. And so nurse was born. And so nurses, the umbrella nurses the venue, it's the space. And for us, we're venue agnostic, we took the ghost kitchen model of you can run six or eight brands on a 400 square foot line, if it's optimized and, and the food and the menus are optimized to cross utilize. And we said, we have six 810 brands, how can we do them in small footprints and replicate them very quickly. And so we're on the verge of launch, we're coming out with POD kitchens first. So custom built used to be shipping containers that were converted, that's mature to ground up custom builds of modular units, every major brand is ordered 1000s of these things, all the new models are stacking these modulars in different configurations. But we're going to do six to eight brands out of a modular kitchen, we're

Speaker 1 50:52

going to do pod parks, we're gonna do one off parking lot activations, I'm really excited about putting a pod in the middle of an industrial or the edge of Office commercial, not necessarily in the center where everybody's at, but but kind of in that No Man's Land where people are coming and going and, and need options. And we can just drop those things very quickly and replicate that very fast. For us. What's unique is we proof everything first. So the traditional model of opening a restaurant is got a great idea, got a great menu, hire good chef, pick a good location as I can afford, tell as many people as I can, and pray it works, right, and then go through that process, and then try and replicate that. And it's really a cross your fingers, hope you win kind of deal for most people. Unless you do a franchise, right, and you're leaning on a brand. For us. We data proof everything first. So we're very fortunate to have some partnerships that give us access to very high level very accurate, very up to the minute data that tells us what genres are doing well, what specific brands are doing well in specific locations? And what is the requested genres and food types? And what level are those at? And how are they not being fulfilled? Or are they being fulfilled very poorly, or from too far of a distance, we all have that information. And our brands are like Legos, we will insert an out in and out and it creates a curated combination of brands for the specific location. And so we're not here trying to make every one of our brands McDonald's, we're trying to make nourish the brand. The brand and as big as sweet greens by itself are bigger, certainly bigger than sweet greens. Because we have diversity. You have a family 2357 people in a house, not everybody wants to eat the same thing together every night that that eat what's on your plate and what I put in front of you world is over. That's my world right? Now it's I want what I want when I want it where I want it how I want it and make it quick and easy, right. And so we will be bringing every one of our collections of nourish, you will be able to order it anywhere in anywhere and how you want to call us we'll answer the phone app we have amazing app website doesn't matter. Third Party, however you get to us, you can pick it up curbside, you can pick it up in a hot locker, you can pick it up in a window, you can do a drive thru, you can sit down and eat it in our picnic tables. We're going to take all the friction out of access to this quality, organic direct source food. And we're gonna bring some really fun genres, and really new genres to some people. You know, authentic Italian is not Bukit of EPO people, okay? Olive Garden is not Italian food, okay? And nobody Italy eats Olive Garden. Okay, so you know, we're gonna bring some really good quality food to the masses. And the goal here is obviously scale, we're looking at five years and between two and 300 locations minimum. But you know, these new models of being menu agnostic, you give me 600 square feet, I can open eight restaurants in that space. And I can do it anywhere inside of a grocery store inside of a office building. You know, see three for MSPs doing it inside of an apartment building right now. So so we're on that train and are hoping to become a leader in that area in the next couple of years.

Christopher Wells 54:06

That's amazing. Bringing the thunder I love it. Can't wait to to be able to experience some of those brands that

Unknown Speaker 54:15

he says When are you coming to Expo?

Christopher Wells 54:19

Where's the were the first ones happening around New York is what you're saying or Yeah, no.

Speaker 1 54:23

So actually we pivoted so my partner in New York will be coming out here. We're doing an LA Basin. So Santa Barbara de San Diego launch starting in, in the suburbs around LA first though hub and spoke model, right. We're going to build the wheel around LA, we're going to spin off into the tertiary markets, the commuter markets, the residential, we want to really serve people where they are and and maybe areas people don't expect it right kind of in those areas that maybe is a risk. You know when you build a pod, I can move it in three days. It might cost me 1315 grand to move it but I can move So, different things, and we can try some different things. And same with the brands, you know, if there's six brands in that unit, and one is not performing, we'll figure out what's missing. We'll ask the customer what? Well, what would you rather have when you're not ordering and what can't you get? And that kind of data driven decision making, and the real time information of, you know, built on the pillars, and the foundation, the bedrock of good business and operational experience, we think is going to be a winning formula.

Christopher Wells 55:30

Very cool. Times flying, I want to know, you've been in business, you know, from from Bennigan's years ago to now what would Troy in 2021 want to say to Troy from 20 years ago, from you know, I guess 1520 years ago when you started as a kitchen manager, any advice you'd go if you went back in time, that you you'd give the younger self like the younger toy?

Speaker 1 55:58

That's a fun one. I've made some fun, crazy decisions in my life. I went and lived in the Caribbean for five years, right? I just boom, gone. Yeah, the first one and this is on Facebook. A lot of people ask this question. The first one is invent Amazon. Now, that's what yeah, it kills me when I hear Gary Vee tell his origin story and how he was sitting in his friend's bedroom and the AOL thing went off, you know, the, the modem thing went off. And he saw a chat room like trying to sell each other things. I wish I had had that lightbulb moment because I was there that day, too. I was there. They prodigy was a box on a cable box attached to TV, forget it. Kids, don't don't worry about what I'm talking about. But um, you know, stick with me, your passion, your passion. Let me just tell you, your passion is the secret ingredient, the secret sauce. And the one thing people have always told me is I would buy ice from an Eskimo if you were the Eskimo because you're passionate, you know what you're talking about. You care about it, you believe it. I know you eat your own food here. I know you drink your own sauce here. So that's the that's the ingredient. I think a lot of people try to be what they think other people want them to be or what they think this the that the successful version of them looks like and and they don't live the experience and enjoy the journey, and they lose their authenticity. So just be authentic. And gosh, in this day and age, I met a girl today who is passionate about artwork on beer cans. She thinks that there's just this whole ecosystem in the world about why the artwork tells the story of the beer and the origin. Man that is really specific. She's gonna podcast about artwork on beer cans, live, there's anything, anything you want to be anything you want to do, you can do if you are authentic to yourself, and you just share your passion and just live and it's okay, if that changes by the way. You know what I've had, I've had a lot of careers, I've had a lot of side careers. I've done a lot of things on the side for fun and gone real deep into hobbies. Your we're all multi dimensional, it's okay to be five people because you are.

Christopher Wells 58:07

That's amazing. Thanks for sharing that and obviously time's flying. I said that 60 minutes would probably go really quickly. I want to shoot a couple of questions because I want to get to know you at the beginning. Um, so a couple rapid fire before you wrap this up. Are you a wine beer? Like do you enjoy a drink here and there? Oh, yes. Are you more wine beer or spirit guy?

Speaker 1 58:33

Oh, I don't drink beer. That's the answer. I have a lot of thing on the bottle of wine and I go I go to a cocktail first and then I finished it with a with a wine favorite cocktail. A generally a very high quality rum SIP with a single cube

Christopher Wells 58:52

beautiful the best trip you've ever taken.

Speaker 1 58:55

Well that's hard I've been a lot of places I own travel luxury travel business and once I'm fat you know depends on what for me again that out Island places nobody's been Dominica in the southern Caribbean is in St. Lucia if you want the luxury side and St Lucia is amazing and but Dominique of the Nature Island. It has a very special place in my heart.

Christopher Wells 59:22

Very cool three words that best describe you.

Speaker 1 59:27

Wow, getting deep okay. I'm passionate, committed and loyal. I

Christopher Wells 59:37

don't know you much but they seem they seem fair, accurate. Seemed like it goes with the story. From what I've seen from what I know that I think I can agree with that. You wind up you've been to many islands but you get parachuted on a desert island. You can bring one album of music. What would that be?

Speaker 1 59:57

That's a hard 150 50 Toss. I was not Super hard it's really one of two things so it's gonna be Phil Collins within the air tonight and that that album I forget the name of that. I don't remember the name. I'm a weird one. I'm an old school guy. I love me some bad company. I'd most people don't even know who I'm talking about. But yeah, some good southern our large you know, pop rock, whatever you want to call it. Big hair. 80s rock Bad Company.

Christopher Wells 1:00:26

I love it. If you could have dinner with anyone living or, or dead.

Speaker 1 1:00:35

Martin Luther King Jr. Yep, MLK. We're gonna sit down and we are going to talk and have have a he had a smoke and he had a cocktail. And right he and I could you and I could talk a lot. Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's there's no question number one.

Christopher Wells 1:00:53

That's amazing. Troy, thank you so much for your time. If people want to get in touch with you, what's the best way if they want to grow their brand? They want to learn more about what you do? How can they reach out to you?

Speaker 1 1:01:04

Yeah, thanks, Troy T ROI at K RP usa.com trained therapy usa.com comes right to me handed right here on my phone. 24/7 365 love guy is not you know, happy to help anybody. I'd rather give some advice and send people in a direction. We don't charge hourly, we don't take really, really small, you know, consultations and one I'd rather just give you that for free and spend some time with you get to know you and help you out. You know, we have our niche. We have our genre. We know where we're at. And everybody else is welcome to reach out and love to know what you're up to. And I get inspired. And And hey, I get ideas. Right? And I'd love to love to talk shop with anybody really did.

Christopher Wells 1:01:52

If you guys are curious, you wanna you want to reach out there's nothing like sending an email, jumping on a call getting to know Troy and then saying, Hey, here's what I'm thinking. Does that make sense or not and didn't at least either you can move forward or either at least you have a clear idea of where you're at Troy. It was a pleasure to receive you today. Thanks for coming and sharing with us and everybody else. We'll see you soon.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:13

Thanks, Chris. Glad to be here. Really appreciate it. Bye

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